tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post6708984510600280682..comments2023-07-02T14:36:38.393+01:00Comments on Lonely Scribe: Breastfeeding in swimming pools - Virginia Howes takes up the causeLonely Scribehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-24915989434392644542014-03-20T14:09:23.262+00:002014-03-20T14:09:23.262+00:00Personally I would certainly not feed my baby in a...Personally I would certainly not feed my baby in a pool, we are obviously not allowed an opinion, its not about terms and conditions its about what WE would not do. This is not an argument, this is MY right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-26448842278303571332013-11-06T15:22:28.244+00:002013-11-06T15:22:28.244+00:00Would you take a diner plate down to the pool - su...Would you take a diner plate down to the pool - submerge in in the top 5 inches of pool water for about 30minutes then remove it and eat off immediately?<br /><br />If so your arguments has a shred of credibility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-47338209316063969602013-11-06T05:28:09.861+00:002013-11-06T05:28:09.861+00:00I don't see anything wrong or illegal with mot...I don't see anything wrong or illegal with mothers breastfeeding in swimming pools. Mothers can breastfeed their babies wherever they want as long as they are comfortable about it. Whether they do it on the bus, in swimming pools or everywhere else in public, it's really up to them. Personally, i don't see a big deal with Sophie feeding her baby at the edge of the pool.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.swimaloha.com/" rel="nofollow">SwimAloha.com</a> <br />Colleen J. Gastonhttps://www.swimaloha.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-36760894051309837922013-11-06T02:22:15.211+00:002013-11-06T02:22:15.211+00:00This is such a SET UP, Virginia and her daughter k...This is such a SET UP, Virginia and her daughter knew exactly what response they would get, and actually wanted the response..just so that they can kick off again about woman's rights... Yes I'm a woman, and breastfed both of my children, however, I used common sense.. I considered other people, yes considered other people. You have to use some kind of decorum surely. I agree with the stour centre manager that it's not hygenic, and considering that they offer seats nearby, then why feel the need to feed an 18 month old child in the pool. The same saying goes when mums say I wouldn't eat my dinner in the toilet, so why should I breastfeed my child in the toilet. Exactly right... So the same saying applies, would these ladies choose to eat their lunch in the pool, or would they get out of the pool and eat it on a seat ? I also feel very concerned for the teenager in question, if she did use the word Offensive, then yes she was wrong, but again it's hearsay isn't it? no proof.. I am all for breastfeeding, but totally totally against bullying a young person, in the name of a staged point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-44857563602342688532013-11-04T14:01:47.997+00:002013-11-04T14:01:47.997+00:00None as deaf as those who can hear.None as deaf as those who can hear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-31873486206716977562013-11-04T13:57:29.015+00:002013-11-04T13:57:29.015+00:00I think we'll have to accept that we disagree ...I think we'll have to accept that we disagree on this issue! (And as an aside I think that infants that are solely formula-fed are actually the most vulnerable to stomach upsets, if we look at the scientific evidence). I maintain my position, which is that if the law protects these women from discrimination, protected they should be - not, as in this case, singled out and berated. If you wish to believe that's a sanctimonious crusade, that's your prerogative, of course.Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-60379836543719042432013-11-04T13:13:21.860+00:002013-11-04T13:13:21.860+00:00I while heartedly support breastfeeding. However ...I while heartedly support breastfeeding. However as infants that are solely breastfeed are at their most vulnerable to stomach upsets it is common sense not to feed them in the pool or the aerosolised chlorinated pool side. Also as someone who has took seven children swimming through their lives I am aware of they get water in their mouths. I also notice that they retch if they swallow it and generally spit it out at each other. However no matter what I say will not be good enough, as you're on a sanctimonious crusade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-87757099060501220962013-11-04T12:42:49.396+00:002013-11-04T12:42:49.396+00:00please quote me the law because from the research ...please quote me the law because from the research i have done this is not the case. and from the information given by both parts sophie was not asked to move out of public view but a short distance out of the swimming pool. so in this instance no i do not see the difference. i think that people are reading far too much into the rights of people and extending their subjective opinions to it and in so doing so slandering individuals and a businessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-2999717676581385172013-11-04T12:23:19.517+00:002013-11-04T12:23:19.517+00:00Further, it's all academic in this case anyway...Further, it's all academic in this case anyway, since the mother was not breastfeeding with the baby in the water - the mother was sitting on a wide step with her own legs in the water, and the baby out. And as has been repeatedly pointed out, the circumstances are not the issue, it is the fact that the manager broke the equality laws in her conversation with the mother that is in question.Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-6800709094601970192013-11-04T12:20:05.847+00:002013-11-04T12:20:05.847+00:00I don't doubt your qualifications; but I wonde...I don't doubt your qualifications; but I wonder how many babies you've taken swimming? Certainly all three of mine have got water in their mouths when swimming, and as older infants they would deliberately swallow it! I thought urgh, but not much you can do to stop them... I would have thought from a gastroenterology point of view that breastfeeding in conjunction with ingesting pool water would be better than ingesting pool water alone, given breastmilk's anti-infective properties...Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-23601818380684261992013-11-04T12:11:54.210+00:002013-11-04T12:11:54.210+00:00They're not swallowing the water generally whe...They're not swallowing the water generally when swimming though. By the way I'm a gastroenterologist. So good luck with that argumentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-86391175035344855602013-11-04T09:47:11.696+00:002013-11-04T09:47:11.696+00:00I think your question is beyond the scope of this ...I think your question is beyond the scope of this post/comments - you'd be better off approaching Virginia/the independent midwives on Facebook or elsewhere as I certainly can't speak for them! However, I do wonder why you think the resources of the independent midwifery campaign are being 'shifted to a personal vendetta'? I certainly don't see any reason why individuals can't be campaigning for several different causes at once. It would seem to make sense that if there is enough interest in/commitment to an issue, then it is worth harnessing that to make improvements to the system - that is how democracy works, after all. Indeed, one of the criticisms levelled at those who have 'opposed' the idea of breastfeeding in public/in pools is that they are not out there lobbying for the law that protects women to be repealed - which is the logical extension of their position.Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-31917733308235148352013-11-04T09:40:34.699+00:002013-11-04T09:40:34.699+00:00Anonymous if you read the post you'll see a li...Anonymous if you read the post you'll see a link to the relevant law. It's not against the law to say that you personally are offended by something, that is your affair, but it is against the law to call a breastfeeding mother 'offensive' and ask her to leave public view because she is feeding her infant. Do you see the difference?Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-69021365362242417432013-11-04T09:36:49.393+00:002013-11-04T09:36:49.393+00:00If you read the rest of the discussion and the lin...If you read the rest of the discussion and the links below, you'll see that in fact the risk of a breastfeeding baby ingesting pool water is no greater than that of any baby in the water - and babies going swimming is widely accepted.Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-4398775878307615882013-11-04T00:03:55.326+00:002013-11-04T00:03:55.326+00:00Can I please ask about the 70k of public funding r...Can I please ask about the 70k of public funding raised towards securing insurance for independent midwives that Virginia et al have be working so hard for. Can I mention that the fight has not yet been won on that front so why is the emphasis of so many of the causes resources being shifted to a personal vendetta whilst a very real and important campaign has fallen by the way side. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-26364767364394224682013-11-03T23:39:55.227+00:002013-11-03T23:39:55.227+00:00Hmm. That chlorinated water will also kill your ba...Hmm. That chlorinated water will also kill your baby's gut flora. Jesus how dense are you people. You see an affrontary to your beliefs and jump and shout without thinking. You complain about having to feed a baby in a public toilet, but a public toolet is a three star Michelin restaurant in comparison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-57187828752733677602013-11-03T21:49:51.766+00:002013-11-03T21:49:51.766+00:00since when was it against the law to say something...since when was it against the law to say something either did or that it may offend people. where does it sate this in the law???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-88202588589898247722013-11-03T21:18:47.891+00:002013-11-03T21:18:47.891+00:00The flaw in your post is this. Breastfeeding babi...The flaw in your post is this. Breastfeeding babies seal their mouths around the breast, and don't take in any water. However, while they're swimming, they'll swallow water if it gets into their mouths. One of my babies actively tries to drink the water for some reason. When I breastfeed him in the pool he's drinking milk, and he's actually taking in less water. If the water is not safe for babies to drink, then it's not safe for them to be breastfed in. But that's not an arguement to not breastfeed in the water - as the act of breastfeeding is protecting them from swallowing the water.sleepybabynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-83601079512365618362013-11-03T21:13:58.923+00:002013-11-03T21:13:58.923+00:00Or, how about this, let the breastfeeding women ge...Or, how about this, let the breastfeeding women get on with their job (caring for their babies) and the lifeguards get on with theirs (which doesn't include attacking women who are minding their own business, caring for their babies). Virginia, I am sure, would agree with you wholeheartedly, that a lifeguard's role is to save lives, not humiliate people.sleepybabynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-46902198729259328752013-11-03T21:10:01.381+00:002013-11-03T21:10:01.381+00:00We're not talking about a lifeguard who glance...We're not talking about a lifeguard who glanced at a woman in passing, but a person who told another person that they were being offensive and in the course of that conversation broke the law.sleepybabynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-58349462950011064952013-11-03T20:45:49.242+00:002013-11-03T20:45:49.242+00:00Thanks to all for their comments: I'm glad thi...Thanks to all for their comments: I'm glad this has been a forum for genuine discussion, unlike the pages of the KM and the Daily Mail! Just a note about Virginia's suggested petition (which was mentioned above). It's my understanding that what she means is simply that there should be a clear-cut method of implementing the law so that individual women do not have to jump through hoop after hoop trying to get their point across when the law is on their side. I imagine this could work in a similar way to something like raising a grievance against an employer in the workplace - as in, as soon as someone makes a complaint in specific terms (i.e. under the breastfeeding legislation) then a clear process of investigation, mediation and restitution takes place, perhaps overseen by an external body (like ACAS to continue my workplace parallel). That would seem a sensible thing to me; it would certainly prevent a repeat of all that's gone on in this case (and in the other cases earlier in the year). Recompense would not necessarily be financial - it could include things like requiring companies to have a written breastfeeding policy, or to have new/additional training for employees, and there might be a form laid out for the way in which a formal apology should be made (perhaps in writing, and somehow published publicly, for example on a company's website/noticeboard). I don't for one minute think Virginia and her daughter are in this for the money!Lonely Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699804881912930230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-86440684681858926262013-11-03T14:02:39.324+00:002013-11-03T14:02:39.324+00:00Well said Emma.Well said Emma.Christina Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18212693225078498247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-59743640843407286552013-11-03T11:35:56.540+00:002013-11-03T11:35:56.540+00:00Just read Virgnia's facebook - she wants to st...Just read Virgnia's facebook - she wants to start up a petition to lobby parliament to discuss breastfeeding with special reference to prosecution and/or recompense (i.e. getting money). My sympathy has now gone out of the window - the whole situation is ludicrous. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-51666688055599812382013-11-02T23:20:20.539+00:002013-11-02T23:20:20.539+00:00There is a time and a place for breastfeeding. The...There is a time and a place for breastfeeding. The time is whenever my baby needs it, for food or comfort. The place is wherever it is convenient for ME to do so. I try not to be in clear view of everyone because I tend to feel vulnerable with lots of people looking though equally I do not hide away or use a big scarf. <br />I would not feed my baby in the pool because I would feel a little exposed and uncomfortable just standing in the pool. For me, I would be more comfortable both physically and emotionally comfortable sitting at the side of the pool with a towel to keep us warm. But that's me. I think all the discussion regarding germs is just a misnomer, germs are likely to be injested by all users of the pool.... it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks because the point is you can legally feed where you want to and for some mums it may be in the pool to help baby settle, to aid them getting used to being in the water, to comfort them if they are afraid, or simply to prevent having to get in and out of the pool several times for feeding of baby.....this can be tricky and hazardous in itself. Finally it is worth remembering that babies can't tell you that they need feeding, or why they are crying, mum may offer the booby, but baby might not take it, this can happen a lot in a half hour session and staying in the water whilst doing so may prevent chilling/ unsettling the baby. I can certainly see many benefits to doing this, even though as I say I haven't found it right for me. As for seeing a bit of breast being unnerving or distracting, well surely this is one of the hazards of being a lifeguard. Flesh being on display comes with the territory....And there are worse things to see than a flash of errant nipple! Ps I am anonymous as this venue for reply only offers limited choice for your submission, my name is Emma, mum of 2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5647340539604305311.post-55876474900021293732013-11-02T18:08:13.331+00:002013-11-02T18:08:13.331+00:00Even though I don't agree with Virginia regard...Even though I don't agree with Virginia regarding her attitude towards the staff at the stour centre which led to vicious name calling by her followers on her website, I do not agree that two wrongs make a right i.e. the daily mail followers & km followers doing the same thing back. I hated the thought of the teenage lifeguard being upset and likewise, I'm not happy with Sophie (and her daughter because I think these things communicate to your children especially when you breast feed) being in tears.<br /><br />This will all die down in a couple of days and perhaps will give all concerned time to consider lessons learnt. <br /><br />For example, the gentle art of negotiation - perhaps Virginia should have met with stour centre managers in the first instance which could have led to an excellent result without all this pain (remember there has to be a benefit for both sides when going into negotiation - ideally with both sides feeling they have 'won' something).This would have been a considered and professional approach. Going into 'battle' with all guns blazing and without having negotiated first was bound to be a disaster. I am afraid Virginia had already created an 'us' and 'them' approach which instantly put up peoples' hackles hence the adverse responses (in both instances). Going to the papers and using social media should be the last resort rather than first.<br /><br />Bringing people with you has a much better chance of success rather than the 'do what I say, it's the law' sledgehammer approach is, in most cases, disastrous.<br /><br />May I suggest that instead of sharing everything on her facebook that for the moment Virginia gives it a rest, arranges a meeting with the managers, discuss the issues, comes to an negotiated agreement and then shares the result with her followers. As her face book is a public site if nothing else it will give her daughter and grand daughter a break and give her time to reflect.<br /><br />Lonely Scribe I have valued your calmness in all of this. You enabled people to air their thoughts - essential in a democracy.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com